Halloween 2020 - Community Planning

[Blake]

Yes, dearies, it's that time of year again! No, not the one where you channel a monster, the one where you figure out the exacts for the process of bringing these monsters to our fair forum.

So, I feel like we need a bit of a shake-up. No, not in the form of a theme or anything, but the event hasn't been performing as well in the past few years. I would posit this is due to it being static, instead of adopting to its community.

As such, I have an idea that I would like to hear some thoughts on: Monster Showcase.

Instead of having the monsters be active 24/7 for the duration of the event, it would instead look like this:

Opening Day: Every monster is able to introduce themselves, interact, and make a general first impression.
Day 2 through October 30th: Either 1 or 2 monsters for that day, intended to make a stronger showing on their own, without overstaying their welcome for the entire event.
October 31st-November 1st: All monsters are able to post, like opening day, with them maintaining their role on the 31st and saying goodbyes on the 1st.
AMA/Game/Intro threads: Monsters will be allowed to use their own threads of these types regardless of the day, so to keep some sort of presence up, should they so choose. It just means people have to go look at the monsters they're interested in, instead of the monsters taking that day's limelight.

This way, it keeps both the players and the community observing them from growing bored of it as quickly. However, this is only an idea on paper, not set in stone, and I really want to hear feedback on it.

I understand that this would require working around people's schedules, and I would work hard to make sure it works for everyone.

Additionally, I will probably make a Discord Server for this year's Event, most likely in late September. I would consider asking people to make burner monster accounts on discord... but that seems too much like a hassle.

Instead, I would instead say that we do away with the actual Monster Hunting facet. It is largely ignored, instead just letting the monsters run around and act, so the players could join a server where everyone knows their identity. Treat it more like one grand stage play.

However, even if this happens, monster identities would still be private until the deadline for signing up. The anonymity of the monsters is still a major factor in the event's fun, even if there's no real hunting going on.

So, yeah, please let me know! I don't want to charge forward and act on something the community wouldn't enjoy, after all.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Just Plain Blake
More middle ground added with AMA/Games/Intros.

[radio414]

I feel like I'd forget which day is mine to post pretty quickly. I also thought the bigger problem was that a bunch of monsters simply lost motivation and reduced their posting habits, and I'm not sure how this fixes that particular problem. The monster discord is a good idea, though, and might help with that?

[Hina's Simp]

We're not even ready for June to come, fuck outta here with Halloween. This year is already scary enough.

[Blake]

7 minutes ago, Dae said:

We're not even ready for June to come, fuck outta here with Halloween. This year is already scary enough.

The event takes a lot of planning. And, if changes are to occur, it's very clear they need to be more than 2 months in advance, based on past years.

9 minutes ago, radio414 said:

I feel like I'd forget which day is mine to post pretty quickly. I also thought the bigger problem was that a bunch of monsters simply lost motivation and reduced their posting habits, and I'm not sure how this fixes that particular problem. The monster discord is a good idea, though, and might help with that?

I'd post a schedule and make sure to tag people when their turn is coming up, so forgetting the day shouldn't be that big an issue.

I feel like that is half of the problem, on top of just many of them feeling like they burn out because they have shortform ideas (Erma, Squid Sisters, and a few others stand out as being outstanding but not having lasting power), and the community tiring of/not taking to their gimmick so much.

The changes could allow the one-shot style of monsters to fair a bit better, as opposed to the longform ones the event has favored in the past. However, I cannot state enough that this is tentative, so it's not a 100%decision by any means, and the input is appreciated ^^

Hopefully Discord will help with that, regardless. I feel another big issue is that the monsters are a gaggle of randoms that can't effectively communicate, due to needing to stay in character when doing so, and only the fabled WEIRDMAGEDDON remotely pulled that sort of collaboration off. Turning the hunt into something people do for themselves instead of an incentivized part of the event allows this idea to work. I'd still tell monsters to keep mum about their identities, tho.

RN, It's 2-2 on approval and rejection of the first idea, so I really wanna hear more thoughts.

EDIT: i'm sorry this got so long winded

[Chaos Sonic]

I know you mentioned not a concrete theme...but can the theme be virus related? XD

Bad jokes aside, the specific day thing for monsters is actually an interesting idea. I assume there'd be a type of schedule/spreadsheet for it to truly show what will happen and who will be there, cause that'll be helpful. It'll also definitely keep the monsters from getting burnt out, so that's a really neat idea there.

[LordCowCow]

I don't think the Discord will help much. A couple people will use it but then won't get responses fast and it'll be abandoned. But it won't HURT so...

As for the schedule, hard no. It not only limits what people can do, making it that they can only do things that span a couple days, it limits how much people get to interact with a monster that they particularly like. Plus if one person gets inactive that means the whole schedule goes to shit.

What's the point in not having a monster hunt if its still gonna be kept a secret who is who?

[yui]

I was skeptical about the idea of showcase days at first, but looking at the details now that I can, I think this will certainly be an interesting thing to try out. The implementation of a dedicated discord server will also at best do wonders and at worst have no negative impact on the event. Finding some sort of compromise between showcase days and standard activity may be the best course of action though. Something like let non-showcase monsters remain active in their AMA and any forum games they may be running, to avoid the event getting clogged up. Those do make up the majority of a monster's activity lately, but with a more limited time to show what they're made of and far less spotlight to share, I imagine monsters will get more out there. Probably. I'm a memelord not a psychologist.

Tentatively in favor of these ideas, but figuring out a middle ground between what you're proposing and what we did last year should be a priority. The last time you proposed a major change to the Masquerade, it resulted in a spectacle of a flop in 2018, so skipping that step and getting right to middle-ground like we did with optional themes last year seems wise.

[Blake]

1 hour ago, Chaos Sonic said:

I know you mentioned not a concrete theme...but can the theme be virus related? XD

Bad jokes aside, the specific day thing for monsters is actually an interesting idea. I assume there'd be a type of schedule/spreadsheet for it to truly show what will happen and who will be there, cause that'll be helpful. It'll also definitely keep the monsters from getting burnt out, so that's a really neat idea there.

Yep. It would require policing, though not harshly, to keep it in order, with a schedule for all to see.

48 minutes ago, LordCowCow said:

I don't think the Discord will help much. A couple people will use it but then won't get responses fast and it'll be abandoned. But it won't HURT so...

As for the schedule, hard no. It not only limits what people can do, making it that they can only do things that span a couple days, it limits how much people get to interact with a monster that they particularly like. Plus if one person gets inactive that means the whole schedule goes to shit.

What's the point in not having a monster hunt if its still gonna be kept a secret who is who?

As I said, it can also lead to shortform acting to shine brighter. Again, those like Erma or Squid Sisters crashed and burned, despite their brilliance. It would be nice to give them a chance for once.

If one person gets inactive, the schedule can be adjusted or filled in with a free for all day. Or, if people are willing, it could be fixed outright. The burden would be on my shoulders, more than anyone else.

What's the point of a Masquerade Ball? Lack of full info makes things more exciting. On top of that, it can assuage aggression between people who normally conflict with one another by removing the element that makes them clash. The only downside is asking people to please keep mum, which... they were gonna do anyway.

People can still guess, it's just a matter of satisfying themselves. There's no reward for it. It's something people can do for fun, and I'd be willing to answer their guesses.

 

8 minutes ago, God of Illiteracy said:

I was skeptical about the idea of showcase days at first, but looking at the details now that I can, I think this will certainly be an interesting thing to try out. The implementation of a dedicated discord server will also at best do wonders and at worst have no negative impact on the event. Finding some sort of compromise between showcase days and standard activity may be the best course of action though. Something like let non-showcase monsters remain active in their AMA and any forum games they may be running, to avoid the event getting clogged up. Those do make up the majority of a monster's activity lately, but with a more limited time to show what they're made of and far less spotlight to share, I imagine monsters will get more out there. Probably. I'm a memelord not a psychologist.

Tentatively in favor of these ideas, but figuring out a middle ground between what you're proposing and what we did last year should be a priority. The last time you proposed a major change to the Masquerade, it resulted in a spectacle of a flop in 2018, so skipping that step and getting right to middle-ground like we did with optional themes last year seems wise.

Hmmm, I think the point about AMAs/Games/Intros is actually a great one. It allows them to still hang around and interact, but without taking the limelight... And I think that's a wonderful middle ground, honestly.

that's why I'm posting this in fucking may, since 2 months notice wasn't even close to enough ;;

-----

ALSO DISCORD IS GONNA HAPPEN THEN. It's not gonna be open until at least September, but it's gonna happen

[LordCowCow]

Honestly, I think a schedule would be a bad idea still. I cannot see any positives to it. Allowing people to post when they want means if they really want to they can still go with a schedule if they find that easier or more fun but they can also post more if they feel they can.

Like...it doesn't give us anything we couldn't do before I don't think. All it does is gives a "reason" for people not posting.

[MetalSonic]

What about just making the event shorter? Wouldn’t that prevent burnout more and give the “weaker” monsters more of a chance to shine because they don’t have to compete for so long?

[Blake]

9 hours ago, LordCowCow said:

Honestly, I think a schedule would be a bad idea still. I cannot see any positives to it. Allowing people to post when they want means if they really want to they can still go with a schedule if they find that easier or more fun but they can also post more if they feel they can.

Like...it doesn't give us anything we couldn't do before I don't think. All it does is gives a "reason" for people not posting.

I... literally presented a positive to it. It allows alternative performances to shine, while longform performances had the stage in past years. A schedule only works if everyone is on board, because it’s not really a showcase of their scheduled day is full of other monsters showing them up.

Also, people have busy lives. Many people, even if the quarantine persists, have not had as much time in recent years. Giving them a time and a place, instead of “be active the whole time”, can be a huge benefit.

9 hours ago, MetalSonic said:

What about just making the event shorter? Wouldn’t that prevent burnout more and give the “weaker” monsters more of a chance to shine because they don’t have to compete for so long?

It also means that major events that can’t be worked around cause more havoc. Last year, I was only able to do half of the event due to when the window for moving happened, and lots of people have had similar issues. Not to mention things like Halloween parties. I think cutting it shorter invites more issues than it solves.

[radio414]

Does this mean the monsters can only meaningfully interact with who they're scheduled with? What happens if there isn't any chemistry between us, are we just stuck for the rest of the event?

Also, I too am in favor of last-year's two week length. Definitely wouldn't have been able to keep up the pace I set for Larry for a full month, and a schedule would have meant there'd have been no pace at all.

[Blake]

43 minutes ago, radio414 said:

Does this mean the monsters can only meaningfully interact with who they're scheduled with? What happens if there isn't any chemistry between us, are we just stuck for the rest of the event?

Also, I too am in favor of last-year's two week length. Definitely wouldn't have been able to keep up the pace I set for Larry for a full month, and a schedule would have meant there'd have been no pace at all.

I was asked similarly in PM, but I would be willing to make exceptions for people to assist with something a monster would want to do for the day. Additionally, we could always have monsters have more than a single day, if required, paired with different people. Different ensembles. This is still an early, imperfect idea, though it does seem to be mostly well received, thus far.

[LordCowCow]

But that's a fake positive. Not having a schedule doesn't mean people who aren't as active have to be active but forcing a schedule makes people who want to be active be unable to be.

It gives nothing realistically and takes away from some.

In the past the issue was not those who had less time being shown up. It was those having less time simply doing...less. Everyone only having a certain timeframe just means that everyone has to come up with something that is interesting and lasts a day or two and hope people show up.

It also forces nonmonster people to have to interact on those days or not at all with particular monsters. If we could guarantee everyone would be around those days maybe but that's impossible.

It solves nothing and the positives are entirely illusionary. A psychological bandaid which covers a perceived issue instead of an actual one.

An idea I heard was

"I feel like it’d be better to just let the monsters label themselves as short form so that people know that they aren’t just being inactive

And the knowledge that their time is limited would probably make them more popular without telling other people to not be active"

[yui]

48 minutes ago, LordCowCow said:

(1)But that's a fake positive. Not having a schedule doesn't mean people who aren't as active have to be active but forcing a schedule makes people who want to be active be unable to be.

It gives nothing realistically and takes away from some.

(2)In the past the issue was not those who had less time being shown up. It was those having less time simply doing...less. Everyone only having a certain timeframe just means that everyone has to come up with something that is interesting and lasts a day or two and hope people show up.

(3)It also forces nonmonster people to have to interact on those days or not at all with particular monsters. If we could guarantee everyone would be around those days maybe but that's impossible.

It solves nothing and the positives are entirely illusionary. A psychological bandaid which covers a perceived issue instead of an actual one.

(1) Monsters being unable to be active is an incredibly rare issue (usually only 1-2 monsters per year) that can easily be worked around with this system. As for the ones that want to be active, if you've read above, you'll know that a middle ground was proposed where monsters can remain active in their games, AMAs, and if it comes to it, intro threads, even on days where they aren't scheduled to have the spotlight. A middle ground that already accounts for a significant portion of the Masquerade's activity in 2019 and 2018 alike. A middle ground that seems to have already been taken in and accepted, based on the response to it. The most it will take away from a monster with something in mind is being asked "hey can you wait like two days before doing that thing?" while other monsters show what they can do for their showcase days. Realistically, the only harm this does is putting a monster's cool new idea on hold for a day or two, during which time the player may even realize a crucial flaw or a way to improve their thing. The more limited timeframe also encourages people to get things done because they only have a day instead of the whole event.

(2) Which is easier to do than figure out something that keeps everyone engaged for 2-3 weeks. One could probably come up with a dozen little mini shenanigans meant to be interesting for a day before working out one that runs the event's full duration. This is evident in that the Masquerade's activity historically falls off before the end of the event, be it in a matter of days like in 2018, or after some 7-10 days like last year. Few monsters held out to the very end last year, with Kurumi, Larry, Carlos, and Ainz being the last men standing. Of them, Ainz didn't appear until near the end of the event anyway, Kurumi (me) completely ignored RP obligations to focus on the event, and Carlos simply had nothing better to do at the time (asked Thar; he confirmed it). This was a much greater problem in 2018, with all but three monsters completely giving up within a week, and it wasn't uncommon in 2017 either. They're going to fall off anyway, so it would be more effective to create a structure that allows for brief but spectacular showcase of what each player can come up with than it is to hope we get 10-15 people with Radio's level of horsepower, tenacity, creativity, and dedication.

(3) See the above point about AMAs/games being okay outside of showcase days. If we have a schedule ready in advance, this could also alert people "oh, I see this monster I'm interested in has their showcase day on the 28th, I should set some time aside on that day to see what they do." That's how events, seasonal sales, and really anything with a "limited time" stamp on it work as well as they do. Of course, setting a schedule up in advance would also mean running signups a bit earlier than usual. Which could also be advantageous, since it gives players more time to think about what to do with their monster once they've locked it in.

Edited May 10, 2020 by God of Illiteracy

[LordCowCow]

2 hours ago, God of Illiteracy said:

(1) Monsters being unable to be active is an incredibly rare issue (usually only 1-2 monsters per year) that can easily be worked around with this system. As for the ones that want to be active, if you've read above, you'll know that a middle ground was proposed where monsters can remain active in their games, AMAs, and if it comes to it, intro threads, even on days where they aren't scheduled to have the spotlight. A middle ground that already accounts for a significant portion of the Masquerade's activity in 2019 and 2018 alike. A middle ground that seems to have already been taken in and accepted, based on the response to it. The most it will take away from a monster with something in mind is being asked "hey can you wait like two days before doing that thing?" while other monsters show what they can do for their showcase days. Realistically, the only harm this does is putting a monster's cool new idea on hold for a day or two, during which time the player may even realize a crucial flaw or a way to improve their thing. The more limited timeframe also encourages people to get things done because they only have a day instead of the whole event.

(2) Which is easier to do than figure out something that keeps everyone engaged for 2-3 weeks. One could probably come up with a dozen little mini shenanigans meant to be interesting for a day before working out one that runs the event's full duration. This is evident in that the Masquerade's activity historically falls off before the end of the event, be it in a matter of days like in 2018, or after some 7-10 days like last year. Few monsters held out to the very end last year, with Kurumi, Larry, Carlos, and Ainz being the last men standing. Of them, Ainz didn't appear until near the end of the event anyway, Kurumi (me) completely ignored RP obligations to focus on the event, and Carlos simply had nothing better to do at the time (asked Thar; he confirmed it). This was a much greater problem in 2018, with all but three monsters completely giving up within a week, and it wasn't uncommon in 2017 either. They're going to fall off anyway, so it would be more effective to create a structure that allows for brief but spectacular showcase of what each player can come up with than it is to hope we get 10-15 people with Radio's level of horsepower, tenacity, creativity, and dedication.

(3) See the above point about AMAs/games being okay outside of showcase days. If we have a schedule ready in advance, this could also alert people "oh, I see this monster I'm interested in has their showcase day on the 28th, I should set some time aside on that day to see what they do." That's how events, seasonal sales, and really anything with a "limited time" stamp on it work as well as they do. Of course, setting a schedule up in advance would also mean running signups a bit earlier than usual. Which could also be advantageous, since it gives players more time to think about what to do with their monster once they've locked it in.

1) The middle ground just proves to me that the original idea doesn't need to exist. It has no actual benefit. The only reason the middle ground is better is because it's a step closer to not having the schedule. It doesn't make the schedule part any less a bad idea.

No, realistically the harm it does it plentiful.
One, making people wait. Two, forcing those who want to do more to not be able to. Three, making it so people who miss the day or two can't participate in whatever the monster comes up with. This is made especially egregious knowing how long the event is meant to be.
As for "limited time-frame encourages people to get things done." Imagine if I told people they could only post in my RP 2 or 3 days after host post and if they miss it they have to wait until next one. That would cause some people to post then but it overall would result in less people posting. It's not just the MONSTERS that need to do things on the schedule its everyone else who wants to interact with the Monsters.

2) You don't HAVE to figure out something that keeps everyone engaged for 2-3 weeks. This just means if people have longer ideas, or ideas that take place over a few different days, they can't. That's all it does. It limits what people are able to do for no reason. And that just proves my point more. Some Monsters only lasted a few days. Some lasted the whole thing. Why punish those who can or will or want to last longer to appease those who can't? When you can just as easily...let people only do a few days if they want and let them do more if they want.
You ASSUME that it would cause a brief but spectacular showcase but
One, that still requires others to participate and can you imagine how terrible it'd feel to have your big event be missed because that day people happened not to check in?
Two, that assumes people WANT to do "big spectacular showcases" when some just want to roleplay the monster with maybe a couple tricks here and there. It's a pointless limiter that caters to specific instances which can still happen in a situation where people don't have a schedule.

3) See the above point of that just proving its pointless to force a schedule. Since people can do SOME things outside of those days but not others because....why? It doesn't help. It just makes people have to do it a certain way.
Also you can't know what monster you'll like before. Last year there were monsters from things I never knew of nor did I care at all about the source but they turned out good. I would have straight up missed some of their entire thing had this been implemented (well if I were the type not to look at everything). Hell, your own monster was from something I didn't read/watch and actively avoided so by your logic I would have skipped you.

tl;dr this idea doesn't add anything that we can't already do with a more open schedule anyway.

But anyway that's just my advice. I'll probably keep back from here.

[Saikazo]

Eh, the idea of a schedule is appealing, I'm not gonna lie. And if it doesn't work out, eh, just don't do it again next year. One of the hardest things about being a monster is having a gimmick and keeping it alive for two weeks or so. I'm down with doing a cool game for a day, and then kicking back and doing AMAs.

[yui]

Out of curiosity, will this year's Masquerade feature an optional theme for monsters similar to last year? If so, are there any ideas on what that theme might be?

Edited May 26, 2020 by Yui

[Blake]

4 hours ago, Yui said:

Out of curiosity, will this year's Masquerade feature an optional theme for monsters similar to last year? If so, are there any ideas on what that theme might be?

I was not planning for that, at present. I see themes as a welcome "gimmick", similarly to this scheduling idea, and I don't know if crossing the wires is a grand idea.

[Big Crongle, the Wongler]

fine i'll do it