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LordCowCow

One Billion Lions vs One Of Every Pokemon

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I want to watch the world burn

On one side there's one billion lions. On the other there's one of each Pokemon. Who wins.

Does it take into account hard game mechanics or more vague Pokemon lore? How comparable is a lion from our world to a Pokemon? I have no idea the prompt doesn't usually get specific. Which I assume is part of why it has gone this long.

Discuss. And

let them fight fighting GIF

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Pokemon champion and expert has the answer to that. Heh, didn't know it was actually a meme, thought Wolfey was just being random with the question.

 

 

Edited by Summer Darj

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20 minutes ago, (?) said:

Literally what do any number of lions do against a single magnezone? PP stall?

that's one of the "does this exist" that doesn't get put into the question that makes me wonder

cause if PP exists in the scenario and the mons don't have enough PP and just struggle to death after a few hundred million lions then its still a loss

that said...

theoretically the weight of a thousand lion's bodies could potentially crush a magnezone ?

15 minutes ago, Summer Darj said:

Pokemon champion and expert has the answer to that. Heh, didn't know it was actually a meme, thought Wolfey was just being random with the question.

I checked out when he implied a spread move would hit every opponent given that the move doesn't hit the trainers in-game (and earthquake doesn't absolutely destroy the land when used) so its clear there's some level of limit on spread moves but we don't know it. Ergo we wouldn't know how much damage they could do

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@LordCowCow I would have to re-watch but IIRC they address that by comparing the damage of spread moves in double, triple and multi battles, and the damage change for spread moves remained the same. Which means that vs. X number of lions, the spread damage wouldn't split further. If you mean how much an Earthquake would hurt the lions then yes that's uncertain, but an EQ boosted by like 900 Helping Hands should be more than enough to finish them all IMO.

Edited by Summer Darj

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4 minutes ago, (?) said:

How do you crush a magnezone that's in the fucking air. Lions can't fly.

depends where its being set, is it somewhere a lion could get a drop on them, is it in a room that limits how high they can fly, so many scenarios possible that isn't specified
also magnezone can't even fly over an earthquake not impressed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

1 minute ago, Summer Darj said:

I would have to re-watch but IIRC they address that by comparing the damage of spread moves in double, triple and multi battles, and the damage change for spread moves remained the same. Which means that vs. X number of lions, the spread damage wouldn't split further. If you mean how much an Earthquake would hurt the lions then yes that's uncertain, but an EQ boosted by like 900 Helping Hands should be more than enough to finish them all IMO.

all we know is that it could hit 5 Pokemon in a horde battle and that's the maximum we know for certain

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Also, one thing to note:

On top of everything, these simple lions are up against LITERALLY GOD.

Edited by Thar

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8 hours ago, Thar said:

Also, one thing to note:

On top of everything, these simple lions are up against LITERALLY GOD.

Literally god who can cast his light of judgement....which doesn't always knock out even non-legendary pokemon

and who can be caught like any other pokemon

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5 minutes ago, LordCowCow said:

Literally god who can cast his light of judgement....which doesn't always knock out even non-legendary pokemon

and who can be caught like any other pokemon

If it's set up like a Pokemon battle, what are the stats and movesets of the lions? And all the Pokemon?

Also, can the lions use masterballs? lol

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Rayquaza could rest completely outside of the reach of the lions, giving it functionally infinite PP in a wide enough time frame. All it has to do at that point is spam surf until there are no more lions.

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56 minutes ago, Thar said:

If it's set up like a Pokemon battle, what are the stats and movesets of the lions? And all the Pokemon?

Also, can the lions use masterballs? lol

That's the issue ain't it? We don't know how strong a lion of our world is compared to Pokemon in their world. For all we know it'd scale and lions would have like, 100 Attack or something. And maybe they're not constrained by movesets unlike the Pokemon

23 minutes ago, (?) said:

Rayquaza could rest completely outside of the reach of the lions, giving it functionally infinite PP in a wide enough time frame. All it has to do at that point is spam surf until there are no more lions.

How far is the range of surf though? And think about it this way, if you use Surf in the game, the water disappears moments later, so its not like the surf will drown them. So it'd have to be able to reach and still do damage and we do not know the maximum range of the move.
And what if there's no PP restoration in whatever battlefield this is going down in? On that note what if its set somewhere rayquaza can't just fly that high?

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2 minutes ago, LordCowCow said:

How far is the range of surf though? And think about it this way, if you use Surf in the game, the water disappears moments later, so its not like the surf will drown them. So it'd have to be able to reach and still do damage and we do not know the maximum range of the move.

Just... Fly down and use surf 8 times... Then fly away. 8 surfs from a rayquaza is obviously going to be enough to kill at least 1 lion, killing all the lions by some interpretations, and you can just keep repeating until they are all dead.

 

4 minutes ago, LordCowCow said:

And what if there's no PP restoration in whatever battlefield this is going down in? On that note what if its set somewhere rayquaza can't just fly that high?

I mean, shit, at that point I'd just grant rayquaza godmode, since we're making up rules.

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22 minutes ago, (?) said:

Just... Fly down and use surf 8 times... Then fly away. 8 surfs from a rayquaza is obviously going to be enough to kill at least 1 lion, killing all the lions by some interpretations, and you can just keep repeating until they are all dead.

 

I mean, shit, at that point I'd just grant rayquaza godmode, since we're making up rules.

Why do you assume infinite PP though? And we still don't know how much damage, range, and spread, said surf has.

And of course we're making up rules, without any rules and at base its impossible to determine who would win.

In conclusion the only way Pokemon win is if we keep everything vague.

And that's a lot of lions.

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Alright...assuming this is Pokémon in the real world...because lions don't exist there (Pyroar and Luxray are based on em, but they are still Pokémon and not physically lions for the sake of the argument). Now, assuming that it's the case of Pokémon crossing over into the real world...and assuming that somehow a billion lions are now on planet earth...let's look at this:

  1. This is Pokémon in the Real World...meaning the video game mechanics would not factor in...meaning guess what: infinite PP for the moves and techniques they perform.
  2. Pokémon rivalries...Zangoose vs. Seviper, Heatmor vs. Durant, Kyogre vs. Groudon vs. Rayquaza, Reshiram vs. Zekrom vs. Kyurem...taking into account these general rivalries with the nature of Pokémon...these Pokémon here would end up fighting each other due to the long hatred filled feud that their species deals with (namely in the non-Legendary Pokémon). So for all intents and purposes, those Pokémon would be out of the running...so remove 10 of those and that leaves 888 out of the 898 registered Pokémon (not counting Alola or Galar forms nor Mega Evolutions or Dynamax forms).
  3. Some Pokémon may not be wanting to participate...case in point, Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, the baby forms of Pokémon...some are just babies...while the Mythicals...well, sometimes Mew is just being adorable and is always playing...Jirachi, well grants wishes and falls asleep...and Celebi, well our time traveling fairy I dunno about so that depends.
  4. Amount of Pokémon...as previously stated, there's exactly 898 Pokémon presently...against a billion lions. So that'll be a bit harder to negotiate, but then again, we're dealing with Pokémon...beings who generally can control elemental attacks and even shoot lasers from their mouths.
  5. Legendary battles. Now this is the clincher...if you recall, in RSE, there was PLENTY of crazy stuff dealing with the weather with the box Legendaries there, meaning the weather was thrown out of control...with Groudon dealing with the massive heatwaves and Kyogre dealing with torrential downpours. Now IF this is taking place in the Savanna like most (if not all) lions tend to be, then the latter of the RS rivalry will be VERY detrimental...given the likelihood of it triggering a pretty bad storm...possibly even flooding the area.

Now, if this ISN'T for the Pokémon in the real world...then I have no earthly idea anymore.

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41 minutes ago, Chaos Sonic said:

Alright...assuming this is Pokémon in the real world...because lions don't exist there (Pyroar and Luxray are based on em, but they are still Pokémon and not physically lions for the sake of the argument). Now, assuming that it's the case of Pokémon crossing over into the real world...and assuming that somehow a billion lions are now on planet earth...let's look at this:

  1. This is Pokémon in the Real World...meaning the video game mechanics would not factor in...meaning guess what: infinite PP for the moves and techniques they perform.
  2. Pokémon rivalries...Zangoose vs. Seviper, Heatmor vs. Durant, Kyogre vs. Groudon vs. Rayquaza, Reshiram vs. Zekrom vs. Kyurem...taking into account these general rivalries with the nature of Pokémon...these Pokémon here would end up fighting each other due to the long hatred filled feud that their species deals with (namely in the non-Legendary Pokémon). So for all intents and purposes, those Pokémon would be out of the running...so remove 10 of those and that leaves 888 out of the 898 registered Pokémon (not counting Alola or Galar forms nor Mega Evolutions or Dynamax forms).
  3. Some Pokémon may not be wanting to participate...case in point, Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, the baby forms of Pokémon...some are just babies...while the Mythicals...well, sometimes Mew is just being adorable and is always playing...Jirachi, well grants wishes and falls asleep...and Celebi, well our time traveling fairy I dunno about so that depends.
  4. Amount of Pokémon...as previously stated, there's exactly 898 Pokémon presently...against a billion lions. So that'll be a bit harder to negotiate, but then again, we're dealing with Pokémon...beings who generally can control elemental attacks and even shoot lasers from their mouths.
  5. Legendary battles. Now this is the clincher...if you recall, in RSE, there was PLENTY of crazy stuff dealing with the weather with the box Legendaries there, meaning the weather was thrown out of control...with Groudon dealing with the massive heatwaves and Kyogre dealing with torrential downpours. Now IF this is taking place in the Savanna like most (if not all) lions tend to be, then the latter of the RS rivalry will be VERY detrimental...given the likelihood of it triggering a pretty bad storm...possibly even flooding the area.

Now, if this ISN'T for the Pokémon in the real world...then I have no earthly idea anymore.

1. If Pokemon in the real world means no game mechanics I'd wonder if it also means that those Pokemon who physically wouldn't be able to function (especially those who fly but shouldn't be able to) in our world would be null and void.

2. That...would be kinda funny to see

4. The thing I'm unsure of is how dangerous said beams are given we've seen people take them (Lance's Dragonite Hyper Beams a dude and he's mostly fine)

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I like this article on this debate:

https://pchcorral.com/13212/opinions/one-billion-lions-vs-all-pokemon/

A few key points it mentions:

  1. This guy rules out legendaries because, in a world where their abilities measure up to their godlike power without the limitations of gameplay, they would easily win.
  2. The battle does NOT play out like a Pokemon battle, meaning it isn't a successive XvX format and is not limited by the statistics and algorithms of the game. This is a full-on clash in an open field, flying Pokemon CAN fly, and Pokemon have unlimited PP, cause this is a battle of strength, not endurance. If it were the latter, lions would undoubtedly win due to the sheer numbers.
  3. They include the fact that if ghost-type Pokemon exist, that means ghosts exist, meaning that if a lion dies, the ghost of that lion can appear and fight in their place.

One thing in particular I don't agree with is that flying Pokemon have to make contact with the lions to harm them. Not true. There are plenty of flying-type Pokemon with ranged attacks, so that would give them an advantage.

However, considering the logic behind ghosts, ghost-type attacks can technically hit other creatures, meaning the ghosts of lions can fly up and fight them. However, only normal-type attacks don't affect ghosts, so non-normal attacks are able to damage ghosts.

In that regard, this person still believes lions would win, and they mention the mob mentality of worker ants using each other to bridge gaps both vertically (flying types) and horizontally (terraforming moves) as well as form rafts to float in a flooded environment (surf), etc. Basically these lions, with one goal in mind, would be like World War Z and essentially act as one fluid unit over a million to one, and if you include the logic with ghosts, that just means they literally can't be reduced in numbers.

Thoughts?

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5 hours ago, Thar said:

I like this article on this debate:

https://pchcorral.com/13212/opinions/one-billion-lions-vs-all-pokemon/

A few key points it mentions:

  1. This guy rules out legendaries because, in a world where their abilities measure up to their godlike power without the limitations of gameplay, they would easily win.
  2. The battle does NOT play out like a Pokemon battle, meaning it isn't a successive XvX format and is not limited by the statistics and algorithms of the game. This is a full-on clash in an open field, flying Pokemon CAN fly, and Pokemon have unlimited PP, cause this is a battle of strength, not endurance. If it were the latter, lions would undoubtedly win due to the sheer numbers.
  3. They include the fact that if ghost-type Pokemon exist, that means ghosts exist, meaning that if a lion dies, the ghost of that lion can appear and fight in their place.

One thing in particular I don't agree with is that flying Pokemon have to make contact with the lions to harm them. Not true. There are plenty of flying-type Pokemon with ranged attacks, so that would give them an advantage.

However, considering the logic behind ghosts, ghost-type attacks can technically hit other creatures, meaning the ghosts of lions can fly up and fight them. However, only normal-type attacks don't affect ghosts, so non-normal attacks are able to damage ghosts.

In that regard, this person still believes lions would win, and they mention the mob mentality of worker ants using each other to bridge gaps both vertically (flying types) and horizontally (terraforming moves) as well as form rafts to float in a flooded environment (surf), etc. Basically these lions, with one goal in mind, would be like World War Z and essentially act as one fluid unit over a million to one, and if you include the logic with ghosts, that just means they literally can't be reduced in numbers.

Thoughts?

I find it weird to say "if PP exists lions would win so it doesn't exist" but alright

Also the ghost thing is kinda silly given its iffy if ghost pokemon are or are not actually dead spirits so lions coming back...idk

As far as not being limited by statistics of the game then the issue becomes "How comparable is a lion to a Pokemon" which, given the closest equivalent we have is Pyroar which is half the size of a lion in our world, might be more comparable than people think

The ranged attack thing is an issue I still have in that we don't know the range of said attacks so its hard to be certain

also the conclusion sounds like cartoon logic which is weird given the other points they made

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1 minute ago, LordCowCow said:

I find it weird to say "if PP exists lions would win so it doesn't exist" but alright

Also the ghost thing is kinda silly given its iffy if ghost pokemon are or are not actually dead spirits so lions coming back...idk

As far as not being limited by statistics of the game then the issue becomes "How comparable is a lion to a Pokemon" which, given the closest equivalent we have is Pyroar which is half the size of a lion in our world, might be more comparable than people think

The ranged attack thing is an issue I still have in that we don't know the range of said attacks so its hard to be certain

also the conclusion sounds like cartoon logic which is weird given the other points they made

idk this whole debate depends on a lot of things and I doubt any conclusions can be made given how there either needs to be all the logic in order for there to be a proper comparison

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