Icon of One Forbidden

[VCR_CAT 19]

Icon of One Forbidden
DARK - Level 10
Machine/Effect
Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set. Must be Special Summoned by shuffling all your banished cards (min. 5) into your Deck. You can only Special Summon 1 “Icon of One Forbidden” per turn. Cannot be destroyed by battle or card effects. This card gains 400 ATK/DEF for each of your face-down banished cards, and 200 ATK/DEF for each face-up banished card. Once per turn: You can discard up to 4 cards and banish them face-down; Banish a total number of cards equal to the number of cards discarded for this effect, up to 1 each from either GY and/or either field. During each End Phase, you can banish 1 “Forbidden One” monster from your hand, Deck, or GY face-down. You can tribute this card: add 5 face-down cards banished by this card’s effect to your hand.
ATK ? | DEF ?

 

I acknowledge how risky it is to make a card like this, but I also think it would be a very interesting tool to use, not just for Forbidden One decks but decks or side-boards in general.

Edited August 8, 2023 by VCR_CAT
Final version for shorter text and better mechanics.

[Sleepy 211]

Umm it isn't too bad but it sounds like a casual fun card.
It is a nomi where I would thank the recycling of banished cards, but requiring at least 5 means you basically need Necroface or Pot of Desires to have gone through to reliable Summon this card in a serious environment, and Necroface is a bit more reliable for the refreshing banished bit.
It gains some ATK but in that sense it is no Gren Maju, not that Gren Maju is all that amazing either, and granted that I get your card does slightly lesser versions of the effects because it is doing various of them in one single card, but I think this is a case in which it is more favorable to run the single-niche more specialized cards for each respective use.

The huge "up to 4" discard cost is risky but I'll give it that it can minimize at 1 discard and banish 1 from field only, or 1 from GY only, and that's pretty good value on its own. Not gonna complain about the super risky "discard 4" scenario that's just an extra option.
The Forbidden One support eff should probably go "End Phase" from anybody instead of just your End Phase. It is kind of slow as it is.
The last effect could afford to say "up to 5" for flexibility. 5 turns is a lot, let along 5 of YOUR turns for the full package. Nowadays searching Exodia is not really game breaking. We got Sangan and Witch at 3 (even if they have a hard OPT errata) on top of "Fusion Deployment" that can Summon them from Deck (or Tour Guide in Sangan's case). There's also the "Obliterate!!!" trap and "Legendary Exodia Incarnate" to further support that win con. I think those are either slightly faster or slightly more flexible if we go the Exodia goal.

All in all, it does a lot of things but in a scattered and kinda diluted way. It's not a terrible thing to go for, but for my taste I'd rather it focused on 1 or 2 effects and did those niches well instead of having like 5 or 6 effects.

[VCR_CAT 19]

On 8/3/2023 at 10:42 PM, Sleepy said:

Umm it isn't too bad but it sounds like a casual fun card.
It is a nomi where I would thank the recycling of banished cards, but requiring at least 5 means you basically need Necroface or Pot of Desires to have gone through to reliable Summon this card in a serious environment, and Necroface is a bit more reliable for the refreshing banished bit.
It gains some ATK but in that sense it is no Gren Maju, not that Gren Maju is all that amazing either, and granted that I get your card does slightly lesser versions of the effects because it is doing various of them in one single card, but I think this is a case in which it is more favorable to run the single-niche more specialized cards for each respective use.

I do realize that the banishing effect is one that really makes it situational in which deck it's being used with. However, knowing that there are a number of well used cards (such as Desires or Snow) that set it up by itself make it pretty easy to get out onto the field. But, beyond that, its function would make it a very strong sideboard piece as against something like Runick you now have a single card that your opponent's entire gameplan is setting up or making stronger.

As for the stat balancing, I had a lot of trouble with it admittedly. It's a hard balance to strike because you have cards like Desires or any of the various new Pot-of-cards that involve mass card banishing that could possibly bust this card wide open, though there is the avenue of adding in a clause for reducing or eliminating battle damage your opponent takes it's already a bit of a soupy card as it is.

Overall, I have to admit I had a few too many ideas for this card. I wanted to make something a little Exodius-like but with a different spin, but the more I worked on it the more complex it got. It cultivated an archetype I designed later that I'm about to post, though, and I did have fun making it, but you're right in saying that this is more like 2 or 3 cards in one and being more focused in what it does would make it a more solid design.

[Sleepy 211]

On 8/5/2023 at 11:34 AM, VCR_CAT said:

I do realize that the banishing effect is one that really makes it situational in which deck it's being used with. However, knowing that there are a number of well used cards (such as Desires or Snow) that set it up by itself make it pretty easy to get out onto the field. But, beyond that, its function would make it a very strong sideboard piece as against something like Runick you now have a single card that your opponent's entire gameplan is setting up or making stronger.

As for the stat balancing, I had a lot of trouble with it admittedly. It's a hard balance to strike because you have cards like Desires or any of the various new Pot-of-cards that involve mass card banishing that could possibly bust this card wide open, though there is the avenue of adding in a clause for reducing or eliminating battle damage your opponent takes it's already a bit of a soupy card as it is.

Overall, I have to admit I had a few too many ideas for this card. I wanted to make something a little Exodius-like but with a different spin, but the more I worked on it the more complex it got. It cultivated an archetype I designed later that I'm about to post, though, and I did have fun making it, but you're right in saying that this is more like 2 or 3 cards in one and being more focused in what it does would make it a more solid design.

Thought of Desires but it being at 2 made me think it is a bit unreliable. Same for something like Gold Sarc + Necroface (although Necroface can also use Allure and really anything else). Did not think of Snow, but I think it is because of the current banned status. I think the pot that excavates cards is ok but as a +0 that either barely allows the Summon requirement or leaves it at 1800 ATK at most, it wasn't something I've been too sold on. I just remembered Gizmekk though, that ought to help a lot, but this is now on the realm of a deck focused around it.
- - - -
Hmm I was thinking on more specific suggestions....
I'm aware the card has immunity built in (and re-reading my previous post I don't think I kept that in mind after the half point of what I wrote there), so it won't be getting Veilered'd or anything any time soon. 

I think it could do without the 1 discard part of the Summon. I think the part of returning all your banished cards when you have 5+ is good enough of its own. The ATK goes up small enough to be beatable even with the immunity so scratching that discard wouldn't be a risky thing.

I also would suggest that the cards it discards for cost to activate the effect instead were "discard and banish, face-down". That way each of your "discards" would fuel +300 ATK, and make it so that if it gets taken down you already have some of the cost ready for another copy. I'm thinking of that excavating Pot card and then using this card's eff to "discard" 2 and hit 1 in opponent's GY and 1 in opponent's field. You then would be left with a 2400 ATK unaffected monster. 2700 with the End Phase Exodia piece banished. It sounds good enough to make a deck around

The last effect being re-read almost gave me a heart attack as I was finishing the previous suggestions, and thankfully it says "by this card's effect". So that plus the clause you having to slow Tribute it instead of it just flowating into a +5.... that is great, I can confidently say this last part of the card wouldn't break a version if your card with my suggestions xD
- - - - 

Oh, that last effect was worrysome until I read "banished by this card's effect". I think I have another suggestion. Instead of "5 cards banished face-down via this card", have it be something like 3 (or 4 depending on testing) banished Exodia pieces regardless of how they were banished or if they are up or down.

I'm thinking Exodia is a pretty big part of the flavor so you hitting any limbs with Desires means your effect can never really retrieve them, and you only end up having to reshuffle all banished cards and start rolling the strategy all over again hoping to not hit limbs.... that sounds a bit too fragile. Aaaaaaand the reason I suggest an amount less than 5 is because my suggestion would go the other way around and encourage a turbo "banish everything then tribute this and win" button.... and that'd be the opposite of an improvement xD
Just an extra suggestion, to see if you find it interesting.
 

[VCR_CAT 19]

23 hours ago, Sleepy said:

I think it could do without the 1 discard part of the Summon. I think the part of returning all your banished cards when you have 5+ is good enough of its own. The ATK goes up small enough to be beatable even with the immunity so scratching that discard wouldn't be a risky thing.

I also would suggest that the cards it discards for cost to activate the effect instead were "discard and banish, face-down". That way each of your "discards" would fuel +300 ATK, and make it so that if it gets taken down you already have some of the cost ready for another copy. I'm thinking of that excavating Pot card and then using this card's eff to "discard" 2 and hit 1 in opponent's GY and 1 in opponent's field. You then would be left with a 2400 ATK unaffected monster. 2700 with the End Phase Exodia piece banished. It sounds good enough to make a deck around

Oh, that last effect was worrysome until I read "banished by this card's effect". I think I have another suggestion. Instead of "5 cards banished face-down via this card", have it be something like 3 (or 4 depending on testing) banished Exodia pieces regardless of how they were banished or if they are up or down.

I think I agree that the stat increase effects are a bit too underwhelming, and adjusted accordingly. Otherwise, banishing the discards sounds brazy and interesting for how the card works for sure and I'll go ahead with that. Not sure about the banished Exodia pieces effect, or if they're up or down, then the card kinda really steers itself into FTK territory.